Step By Step Instructions. Measure top to bottom of the 2×4 lumber. Do this once you know the height of the stand platform. Drill a hole in the 2×4 lumber. Note: The treated lumber would determine the treestand’s height. Next, we’re ready to build the base of the platform. For example, your stand is 32 inches in width.Jan 6, 2023 · Step 2. Now that you have a tree to build the stand, look for two sturdy branches that are parallel to each other. Cut two pieces of wood from the extra wood means, measuring 2.5 feet in length. Nail both of these pieces to the branch, hammering it until it’s nailed in without chances of it falling. i decided to build my own DIY hunting tree stand out of scrap aluminium i had laying around due to the price of a brought one and the fact that you can easil...Jul 6, 2015 ... Deer Hunting: How to Soundproof a Stand · Foam Insulation Tape Weatherstripping is readily available anywhere furnace components are sold, ...Jul 6, 2015 ... Deer Hunting: How to Soundproof a Stand · Foam Insulation Tape Weatherstripping is readily available anywhere furnace components are sold, ...Connect. Take the two squares and connect them together using four more pieces of your tube pipe. This will connect the top and bottom of the top of the climbing stand. After you have bolted securely, you will then want to bolt down the chain cable that will allow you to climb the tree and also hold you firmly to the tree while you are hunting.Aug 4, 2016 ... My first tree stand was simply a piece of plywood about 24" x 18" with "v" notches cut into two sides. You had to find a tree that split into a&...6 foot stand $725.00. 8 foot stand $900.00. 2 FEET EXTRA ON LEGS $30.00 ADDITIONAL. Additional Octogonal Deer Blind Stands. 6x10 . 4 foot stand $630.00. 6 foot stand $770.00. 8 foot stand $950.00. 2 FEET EXTRA ON LEGS $30.00 ADDITIONAL. You can have your blind made in sections to make it easier to take in to your location.Deer Blinds in 6 ...Both stands in this video cost approx $15 of2x4's plus your plywood for flooring. Plus it's easier then cutting a bunch of t... How to build a cheap tree stand.JOHN DEERE CAPITAL CORP.DL-MEDIUM-TERM NTS 2022(27) (US24422EWA36) - All master data, key figures and real-time diagram. The John Deere Capital Corp.-Bond has a maturity date of 1/...Hawk Big Denali 18 Foot Durable Steel 2 Man Hunting Game Deer Ladder Tree Stand with Safe Tread Steps, Kick Out Footrests, and MeshComfort Seats . Brand: Hawk. 4.2 4.2 out of 5 stars 163 ratings. $394.99 $ 394. 99. Delivery & Support Select to learn more . Ships from Spreetail .Mar 19, 2024 · For constructing your pallet deer stand, the following steps should be followed for easy homemade stand construction. Cut the 2 X 6 inch lumbar into 6’ long pieces. Use 4 pieces to build the frame. From 2 X 4 inch lumbar, cut the joists to support the frame. Place joists about 16” from each other. 10 Hillbilly Deer Stands That Are The Definition Of Redneck Engineering. It’s hunting season. And while we’re all in search of the world’s biggest buck this fall, an integral part of that process is the tree stand/hunting blind. Sure, you could drive on over Bass Pro, drop a few hundred bucks or more on a stand/blind of your choosing.Here are some of the best tripod deer stands on the market so you can get in on the action. Best Overall: Millennium Treestands T360 16ft Revolution. Best Portable: Millennium T-100 10-ft Aluminum ...i decided to build my own DIY hunting tree stand out of scrap aluminium i had laying around due to the price of a brought one and the fact that you can easil...Jun 13, 2023 · Wrap the strap around the platform, attach, and cinch so the buckle doesn’t clang against stand or steps. Step 5: Tie one end of a pull-up rope at the hip of your harness, the other to the stand ... Aug 4, 2016 ... My first tree stand was simply a piece of plywood about 24" x 18" with "v" notches cut into two sides. You had to find a tree that split into a&...Dec 21, 2023 · Use the 2-by-4s to build the platform, then add poles for the legs. Create a ramp. Use 2-by-6s to create a ramp that angles up from the platform to the stand. The ramp makes it easier for you to climb into the stand. Add railings. Use 2-by-6s to retrofit the deer stand. Make sure they're 12 inches apart. Add a roof. May 8, 2024 · Mix it all well together. Dig a 6-8 in. deep hole in the soil where you wish to put the salt lick. Fill the hole with the mixture and mix it up with the soil. Remember, when it rains, the soil will absorb the salt lick. Deer takes up the residues on the surface. However, most of it gets into the sand. Cut the plates and the studs from 2×4 lumber. Drill pilot holes through the plates and insert 2 1/2″ screws into the studs. Place the studs equally spaced, every 16″ on center. As you can notice in the plans, you have to frame the window opening. Moreover, double the studs placed at both ends of the wall.Mar 1, 2022 · 5. Create Shooting Lanes. This last project is a simple one— create shooting lanes or widen existing ones at all your stand sites. All my ladder stands are situated either in thinned oak groves or in natural funnels. These sites produce year after year and are classic places to encounter whitetails. If you google for "homemade deer stand plans" or "homemade hunting stand plans" you will come with a bunch. Add the word "free" and you will come up with a little less but still enough to choose from. You can also look at pictures of stands and make something that will suit your needs. ... I'm looking to buy a tree stand for my Son. Mine is ...How to Build a Tree Stand. Tree stands, also known as deer stands, are platforms used by hunters, and can be either open or enclosed. These platforms are secured high in a …Deer are herbivores, which means that they primarily eat plants, ivy and grass. Many deer, especially whitetail deer, eat acorns that fall from trees, as well as hickory nuts, beec...If you are a passionate jam maker and want to take your homemade creations to the next level, one way to make them stand out is by using A4 sheets of labels. These labels not only ...Hawk Denali - Editor's Choice 2 Person Tree Stand. Summit Titan SD - Great Climber For Big Guys. Lone Wolf Assault II Hang On - Editor's choice Lightweight. Lone Wolf Assault Hand Climber Combo - Lightest Climber. XOP Air Raid Evolution - Best Budget Lock on. Millennium M7 Microlite - Lightest Lock on.Summit 180° Max SD Closed-Front Climbing Treestand. 4.6 (16) $469.99. 1. …. Hunt longer by blending in with top-notch hunting blinds and tree stands. Browse a variety of deer and hunting stands at Academy Sports + Outdoors.🦌🌳 Ultimate DIY Deer Hunting Tree Stand: How to Build the Perfect Deer Stand for 2023! 🌳🦌📽️ Watch as we take you on an exhilarating hunting adventure ri... Use 4×4 lumber for the posts and 2×4 lumber for the steps. Align the edges with attention, drill pilot holes and insert 3 1/2″ screws to lock them into place tightly. Assembling the tree stand frame. The next step of the project is to assemble the frame for the ladder stand. Make sure the corners are square, drill pilot holes through the ... i decided to build my own DIY hunting tree stand out of scrap aluminium i had laying around due to the price of a brought one and the fact that you can easil... 10. DIY $20 Deer Feeder. The $20 Deer Feeder is a great project that uses a large bucket and PVC pipe to help you create an inexpensive feeder. The author explains each step in video format, so it’s easy to follow, and once you have all the materials, you can have it up and running in as little as 30 minutes.Skunk Ape Tree Stands provides the most innovative ladder stand on the market. Our patented design allows for the hunter to sit, safely, in a padded and swiveling seat which facilitates utilization of the 360 degree shooting rail. Getting the hunter’s back off of the tree and in the middle of the shooting rail allows for a longer and more ...Jun 17, 2019 ... Backpacking/DIY Hunting Equipment · DIY Gear Modifications · Facebook Twitter youtube Instagram Contact us RSS. Aluminum tree stand build.Cut four 1/2″ – 4’x8′ plywood to 6′ 9 1/2″ long. Notch plywood siding around roof boards and install using 1 1/2″ finishing nails. Cut window opening as shown on illustration above. Right/left siding: Cut two 1/2″ – 4’x8′ plywood to 7′ 5 3/4″ long. Measure and cut the plywood siding on top and notch around roof boards.At the bottom, place a 90-degree elbow and then a 45-degree angle pointing up — forming a “J” shape. This will allow you to fill up the tube without the grain falling out directly. The deer will be able to eat from the 45-degree angle piece. As they eat, gravity will refill the base with grains. This is the captivating world of tree stands – a crucial tool for any avid hunter seeking an edge in their pursuit of game. Tree stands, also known as tree blinds or deer stands, are platforms positioned in trees to elevate hunters above ground level. This strategic advantage offers a bird’s-eye view of the hunting ground, granting an ... Performance and guidance are solid across all segments....DE Deere & Co (DE) released the firm's fiscal second quarter financial results on Friday morning. For the three month peri...Deer are beautiful animals, but they can wreak havoc on your garden if they find their way in. From nibbling on your prized roses to devouring your favorite shrubs, deer can quickl...DIY Tree Seat (Like a Saddle for the Ground Hunter) See all DIY Hunting seat versions —-> I’ve struggled with this design for about 10 years now and have made …This is a fast easy build. It is a 12 foot ladder for a box blind, deer stand, or any need of a cheap ladder. It is made from 2-2x4x12 and 2-2x4x8 treated lu...This prevents theft and also allows a hunter to be truly mobile and not be limited to predetermined deer stand locations. Jaw-dropping photos & video of piebald deer. UQM Tree Stand Seat Replacement, Adjustable Treestand Seats for Hunting, Comfortable Hunting Tree Seat Fits Climber Deer Tree Stands. $43.99. Buy Now.DIY 2×4 Deer Stand with Box Blind for Deer Hunting. The deer season opener is just around the corner, and this DIY deer stand is just what you need! This deer stand is 17 feet up in the air, giving you a …Step By Step Instructions. Measure top to bottom of the 2×4 lumber. Do this once you know the height of the stand platform. Drill a hole in the 2×4 lumber. Note: The treated lumber would determine the treestand’s height. Next, we’re ready to build the base of the platform. For example, your stand is 32 inches in width.Sep 28, 2019 · Here we built some 16' ladder tree stands out of 2x4's. It's a Easy and fairly Cheap way to make 4 to 6 tree stands for the cost of just 1 of the normal meta... Deer are beautiful animals, but they can wreak havoc on your garden if they find their way in. From nibbling on your prized roses to devouring your favorite shrubs, deer can quickl...First level of my archery ladder stand. Homemade wood ladder stand. DIY 2×4 Deer Stand with Box Blind for Deer Hunting. DIYTyler. 11.10.2021. Cut enough crossbars so they may be spaced 12” apart. It's up to the woodworker in the event that they want to put a crossbar at the lowest and top. The. 17.08.2018. How to Build a Tree Stand.Jun 17, 2019 ... Backpacking/DIY Hunting Equipment · DIY Gear Modifications · Facebook Twitter youtube Instagram Contact us RSS. Aluminum tree stand build.Jul 6, 2015 ... Deer Hunting: How to Soundproof a Stand · Foam Insulation Tape Weatherstripping is readily available anywhere furnace components are sold, ...In Victorian times, only a few plants could stand up to the fumes from coal fires and gas lamps. Now, we have a wide variety of plants to choose from. Advertisement We take it so m... The Grand Stand homemade deer stand has evolved over time and has been heavily hunted and constantly improved so the stand that you'll be building is most certainly time-tested and proven. We have had enough experience building and hunting from box stand deer blinds to know which parts deteriorate first (so it can now be avoided), to what items ... Oct 21, 2021 ... With NY deer season coming up - I drove from Nashville to Syracuse to spend the week building a treestand on my mom's farm.Wrap the strap around the platform, attach, and cinch so the buckle doesn’t clang against stand or steps. Step 5: Tie one end of a pull-up rope at the hip of your harness, the other to the stand ...Jun 13, 2023 · Wrap the strap around the platform, attach, and cinch so the buckle doesn’t clang against stand or steps. Step 5: Tie one end of a pull-up rope at the hip of your harness, the other to the stand ... Below are the lightest weight climber tree stands currently available on the market in order from lightest to heaviest. Unfortunately, the market is dominated by Summit right now, especially if you want a climber under 20 lbs. Summit Open Shot SD (15lbs) Summit Mini Viper SD (18lbs) Summit Viper SD (20lbs) Now I will go over these stands in a ...This is how we built our new deer stand tower blind and how to elevate a deer stand. You can modify it how you like of course and they are not hard to build...How to build a cheap tree stand. Both stands in this video cost approx $15 of2x4's plus your plywood for flooring. Plus it's easier then cutting a bunch of t...Oct 31, 2017 ... A view of the inside of Mike Russo's hunting stand in Chenango County. Notice the comfy chair.Here are the best hang on treestands on the market today. Best Overall: Millenium M150 Monster. Best for Bowhunting: Summit Treestands Ledge XT. Best For Big Guys: X-Stand The Jester. Best ...Oct 21, 2021 ... With NY deer season coming up - I drove from Nashville to Syracuse to spend the week building a treestand on my mom's farm.Summit Dual Axis. Hawk Helium Pro. Ol’ Man Alumalite CTS. Best Ladder Stand: Hawk BigHorn. How We Tested Tree Stands. We tested the best tree stands on the market. Scott Einsmann. This review is broken into two sections: stands tested in 2023 and stands tested in 2022.Step 2. Now that you have a tree to build the stand, look for two sturdy branches that are parallel to each other. Cut two pieces of wood from the extra wood means, measuring 2.5 feet in length. Nail both of these pieces to the branch, hammering it until it’s nailed in without chances of it falling.Aug 4, 2016 ... My first tree stand was simply a piece of plywood about 24" x 18" with "v" notches cut into two sides. You had to find a tree that split into a&... i decided to build my own DIY hunting tree stand out of scrap aluminium i had laying around due to the price of a brought one and the fact that you can easil... Sep 5, 2020 - Explore Simon Holloway's board "Homemade tree stand" on Pinterest. See more ideas about homemade tree stand, hunting stands, deer hunting stands.How to Build a Tree Stand. Tree stands, also known as deer stands, are platforms used by hunters, and can be either open or enclosed. These platforms are secured high in a …Below are the lightest weight climber tree stands currently available on the market in order from lightest to heaviest. Unfortunately, the market is dominated by Summit right now, especially if you want a climber under 20 lbs. Summit Open Shot SD (15lbs) Summit Mini Viper SD (18lbs) Summit Viper SD (20lbs) Now I will go over these stands in a ...Deer are herbivores, which means that they primarily eat plants, ivy and grass. Many deer, especially whitetail deer, eat acorns that fall from trees, as well as hickory nuts, beec...The tripod deer stand is a long-lasting and affordable hunting platform. Unlike platform tree stands, which are made of wood, the tripod stand does not degrade over the years because of rot. However, it still has the comfort of these larger stands. It is as mobile as any climbing tree stand and much safer, as you won't be in danger of slipping ...Design Your Blind: Sketch a simple plan. A 4×4 or 5×5 foot blind is sufficient for one person. Build the Frame: Using 2x4s, construct a square or rectangular frame for your blind’s base, walls, and roof. Attach Walls: Cut plywood or siding to fit the frame and screw it in place.For constructing your pallet deer stand, the following steps should be followed for easy homemade stand construction. Cut the 2 X 6 inch lumbar into 6’ long pieces. Use 4 pieces to build the frame. From 2 X 4 inch lumbar, cut the joists to support the frame. Place joists about 16” from each other.Consider an Urn. Gordon Beall. Elevate a small real or faux Christmas tree by placing it in an urn planter. Give it extra height by putting it on top of a cement pedestal. Customize the stand ...Nov 6, 2019 - Explore David Dicus's board "Homemade tree stand" on Pinterest. See more ideas about deer hunting stands, deer stand, hunting stands. This is a fast easy build. It is a 12 foot ladder for a box blind, deer stand, or any need of a cheap ladder. It is made from 2-2x4x12 and 2-2x4x8 treated lu... Dec 10, 2016 - Explore Tim Guffey's board "deer box stands" on Pinterest. See more ideas about deer, deer stand, deer blind.21. Covered Deer Feeder. Conclusion. 1. DIY Wood Box Feeder With Removable Lid. This feeder box consists of several pieces of wood screwed or nailed together. It features a sloping front to create a triangular bin with a ¾-inch wide opening for the feed to spill out gradually.If you don’t mind spending a bit of time putting this gun rest together, it is a great option for a tree stand. 3. DIY PVC Pipe Gun Rest by Survival Kit. Image Credit: Survival Kit. Check Instructions Here. Materials. PVC pipe, paint. Skill Level.10. DIY $20 Deer Feeder. The $20 Deer Feeder is a great project that uses a large bucket and PVC pipe to help you create an inexpensive feeder. The author explains each step in video format, so it’s easy to follow, and once you have all the materials, you can have it up and running in as little as 30 minutes.Derek Porter. The other option is to just sit your post on top of the plywood floor. For this method, cut your posts to 77.5” in front and 65.5” in back (if you want your blind to be the same height as ours). To beef up the structure, we added another 2×4 under the floor, up against the perimeter joist like this:9 Free DIY Deer Stand Plans: Bob Scheierl's Free Deer Stand Plan. Mickey Bartholomew. Woodworking. Deer Stands. Deer Stand ... 9 Free DIY Deer Stand Plans: Free Octagon Deer Blind Plan. T. Terry Zich. Homemade Tree Stand. Ladder Tree Stands. Ladder Stand. Deer Blinds. Coat Hanger Stand. Wanna build this too. C. Chris Newsome. …Attach straps to the frame with rivets or heavy-duty zip ties; heavy-duty duct tape will do in a pinch. After attaching your straps, perform a “test-drive” with stand, sticks, and pack mounted. Your goal now is to achieve absolute silence under a full load; add duct tape to the pack frame as necessary to silence any squeaks, jangling metal ...Deer are abundant on our farm, but for most of the summer, they've left my garden well enough alone until I went out of town of vacation. Expert Advice On Improving Your Home Video...* Ladder Stand – The ladder stand that can be chained on, strapped on or in some way fastened to the side of a tree is my favorite. The reasons are simple.Jun 13, 2023 · Wrap the strap around the platform, attach, and cinch so the buckle doesn’t clang against stand or steps. Step 5: Tie one end of a pull-up rope at the hip of your harness, the other to the stand ... Lightweight and portable Tripod and Tower Deer Stands at Sportsman's Guide. Find a variety of Hunting Towers and Tree Stands at low prices. Skip to main content. $20 off $100+ Order with Code SG4731. Use coupon code SG4731 at checkout to receive $20 off your order of $100 or more. Minimum order amount cannot include Buyer's Club …This prevents theft and also allows a hunter to be truly mobile and not be limited to predetermined deer stand locations. Jaw-dropping photos & video of piebald deer. UQM Tree Stand Seat Replacement, Adjustable Treestand Seats for Hunting, Comfortable Hunting Tree Seat Fits Climber Deer Tree Stands. $43.99. Buy Now.Grand Stand Deer Stands. EVERYTHING about how to build the best deer stands AND hanging tree stands for a very low price is in this book AND its available as a download, printed book, or CD.The Grand Stand shooting house deer stand will give you and your hunting friends all the comforts of home for a low price while you hunt much more … Design Your Blind: Sketch a simple plan. A 4×4 or 5×5 foot blind is sufficient for one person. Build the Frame: Using 2x4s, construct a square or rectangular frame for your blind’s base, walls, and roof. Attach Walls: Cut plywood or siding to fit the frame and screw it in place. Build a base of rocks, gravel, or large rocks for the base of the deer stand. The stand needs to be sturdy, and this base will protect the structure from the deer's antlers. Construct the frame. Use 2-by-4 lumber to build the frame of the deer stand. Use the 2-by-4's to build the platform, then add poles for the legs.If you want to learn more about building a basic wooden deer stand that can be disassembled and moved from one location to the other, we recommend you to pay attention to the instructions. This step by step …
The first step is to select the spot where you will build your platform. The platform should be situated about 10 feet off the ground and should have a clear shooting lane in all directions. Once you have selected the spot, use a shovel to clear away any debris and level the surface. Find a sturdy tree for the platform.. Strainly seeds
Watch the video below: This strategy could be perfect for run-and-gun situations during a firearm season. For areas with large CRP fields and no trees, the ladder could be an easy way to get a good vantage point with little to no work. The ladder strategy is cost-effective, light and extremely quiet. For around $50 and an hour of labor, this ...Summit 180° Max SD Closed-Front Climbing Treestand. 4.6 (16) $469.99. 1. …. Hunt longer by blending in with top-notch hunting blinds and tree stands. Browse a variety of deer and hunting stands at Academy Sports + Outdoors.Camouflage Cover for Tree Stand Concealment | Tree Stand Blinds. Imagine sitting in your tree stand on opening morning. As the first rays of sunlight start shining through the autumn leaves, you hear a branch break. Just as you imagined, you spot a deer walking down the well-used trail you found earlier in the week.TREE SIZE: Minimum 9” Diameter. WEIGHT RATING: 300 Lbs. HARNESS: Full Body Fall Arrest Harness Included. The first of the tree stands for public ground is what is shown in the video above, the Muddy Vantage Point Hang-on. The Muddy Vantage Point is only an astonishing 13 lbs. which should ring beautifully in the ears of any public land …Stay concealed and comfortable during duck and deer hunts with 12 Point Hunting Blinds. We offer a wide selection of hunting towers, box blinds and more! Designed by Hunters...for Hunters. Blog. 610-900-6280. 0 ... We can add the optional stand & ladder for the added advantage of an elevated position.Oct 21, 2020 ... Hunting opportunity is often measured by the amount of time one is able to spend in the woods. Whether those hours accumulate from the ...Step 2: Step 2: Find the Perfect Spot. When looking for a location to place the tree stand you must consider a lot. There are so many factors out there that can cause a certain spot not to work. Weather is a major factor in the hunting world that cannot be controlled.Jan 2, 2019 · Use 1 5/8″ screws to lock the sheets to the joists, every 8″. Side-wall-frame—8×8-deer-stand. Build the side walls from 2×4 lumber. Cut the components at the right dimensions. Drill pilot holes through the plates and insert 3 1/2″ screws into the studs. You can adjust the size of the windows to suit your needs. Design Your Blind: Sketch a simple plan. A 4×4 or 5×5 foot blind is sufficient for one person. Build the Frame: Using 2x4s, construct a square or rectangular frame for your blind’s base, walls, and roof. Attach Walls: Cut plywood or siding to fit the frame and screw it in place. Tree Stand Backpack Straps and Utility Straps Deer Hunting Accessories Tree Stand Holding Climbing Transport System Hunting Backpack Treestand Carrying Stabilizer Strap Lightweight 4PCS. 3. $1999 ($5.00/Count) Typical: $23.99. FREE delivery Wed, Mar 6 on $35 of items shipped by Amazon. Or fastest delivery Mon, Mar 4.Oct 25, 2017 ... As as the decades of deer hunting tick by, I find that my number of sits that are all day in one treestand, are less and less.44 feet of PVC pipe. Camouflage netting. Staple gun with staples. Build a frame base from black PVC pipe. This can be accomplished by manually connecting the interlocking joints that are a characteristic of PVC pipe. The dimensions of the frame can vary, but the base should be a minimum of 9 square feet. This base should be built in a square ...Oct 21, 2021 ... With NY deer season coming up - I drove from Nashville to Syracuse to spend the week building a treestand on my mom's farm.Here’s how: 1. Start by cutting four 2x4s to the following lengths: two at 24 inches, one at 21 inches, and one at 18 inches. These will form the sides and base of your stand. 2. Next, cut two more 2x4s into thirds – these will be used as crosspieces to reinforce the sides of the stand. 3.Aug 4, 2016 ... My first tree stand was simply a piece of plywood about 24" x 18" with "v" notches cut into two sides. You had to find a tree that split into a&...Mar 19, 2024 · For constructing your pallet deer stand, the following steps should be followed for easy homemade stand construction. Cut the 2 X 6 inch lumbar into 6’ long pieces. Use 4 pieces to build the frame. From 2 X 4 inch lumbar, cut the joists to support the frame. Place joists about 16” from each other. Here we constructed a few sixteen' ladder tree stands proud of 2×4's. It's a Easy and pretty Cheap way to make 4 to 6 tree stands for the cost of simply 1 of the regular meta. It is a 12 foot ladder for a field blind, deer stand, or any want of a reasonably-priced ladder. It is crafted from 2-2x4x12 and a couple of-2x4x8 treated lu.Smooth the cut edges with fine-grit sandpaper and attach it over the joists. Drill pilot holes along the edges and secure it to the joists with 1 1/4″ galvanized screws. Leave no gaps between the components and check if the edges are flush. Continue the project by building the sides of the deer stand.Performance and guidance are solid across all segments....DE Deere & Co (DE) released the firm's fiscal second quarter financial results on Friday morning. For the three month peri...Consider an Urn. Gordon Beall. Elevate a small real or faux Christmas tree by placing it in an urn planter. Give it extra height by putting it on top of a cement pedestal. Customize the stand ....